[spectre] Everything is real a FB conversation

[heath bunting]

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Andreas Maria Jacobs wrote:


as knowledge workers
and dissemblers and creators of meaning
it is generally worth expanding definitions
instead of collapsing them

claiming something is something else can be risky
claiming many things are something else is very risky

these are classic methods of dis-informers and propagandists

can i propose that the quest for knowledge and enlightenment
be considered as the unknotting a of blade of grass, rooted in the ground
and reaching for the light

on the axis of concrete-abstract things may be more true or untrue 
depending on their level integration within the smooth continuum

most facebook users no longer have any unhindered link back to the soil
and if attempt this journey end up vomiting on the roller-coaster of 
perception




> Everything is Real
>
> A Facebook Conversation between Curt Cloninger, Everly Brown, Kenneth Bailey, 
> Marija Vauda and Agam Andreas
>
> Februari 21 to Februari 23 2011
>
> CURT CLONINGER
> Everything is real except for the unreal (and even "the unreal" as an 
> ontological category is real). So... Hyper-real is real. Augmented reality is 
> real. The virtual is real. The actual is real. Online life is real. Offline 
> life is real. Digital & analog -- both real. Spectacle & simulacrum -- both 
> real. Imaginary & artificial -- real, real, real.
> February 21 at 7:14pm · LikeUnlike
>
> ·
>
> 3 people like this.
>
> EVERLY BROWN
> What about the unkown unkowns?
> February 21 at 7:16pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> KENNETH BAILEY
> So... would you say you consider yourself a realist? :)
> February 21 at 7:24pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> CURT CLONINGER
> "There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there 
> are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not 
> know. But there are also unknown unknowns  the ones we don't know we don't 
> know." - D...onald Rumsfeld
>
> The glib response would be to say, "I don't know." Instead, I will say that 
> the unknown unknowns are also real. Because even in Rumsfeld's statement, 
> there is a presumption -- he presumes to know that the unknown unknowns are 
> (at least) things. We don't know that we don't know them, but we still 
> presume that "they" "are" "ones."See More
> February 21 at 7:24pm · LikeUnlike
>
> · 1 personLoading...
>
> CURT CLONINGER
> Kenny, I myself am not a realist, but I am real, and realism is real.
> February 21 at 7:25pm · LikeUnlike
>
> · 1 personLoading...
>
> MARIJA VAUDA
> ''...Something un-named doesn't exist.But everything is 
> named./V.Nabokov/''...SAME WAY WE COULD THOUGHT ABOUT 
> REAL/ITY/...MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...
> February 21 at 8:38pm · LikeUnlike
>
> · 1 personLoading...
>
> AGAM ANDREAS
> Everything inside men is unreal, and a fiction of human beings, reality only 
> exists outside human experience
>
> Nature is real
> body is real
> corpse is real
> ...
> mind is unreal,
> art is unreal,
>
> death is real
> life is real
>
> politics is unreal,
> language is unreal
> relation is unreal
>
> Sound is real
> Logic is unreal
>
> Air is real
>
> Love is unreal
> Hate is unreal
>
> Tree is real
> Imaging a tree is unreal
>
> Dreaming is unreal
> Stone is real
>
> Nature is real
> Culture is unreal
>
> FB is unreal
> Internet is unreal
>
> Fight the unreality!
> Make things!, not thoughts!
>
> URD
>
> Unreality Resistance Department
>
> "Natura Naturans", Baruch d'Espinoza
> See More
> February 21 at 8:55pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> MARIJA VAUDA
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics
> SEMIOTICS CHAIN COULDN'T BE BROKEN WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE...
> 1./IMAGINING TREE IS UNREAL TREE IS ALSO UNREAL
> 2./TREE IS REAL AND IMAGINING TREE REAL
> 3./KIGJCZ IS REAL AND IMAGINING KIGJCZ IS REAL
> ......MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...See More
> February 21 at 10:10pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> AGAM ANDREAS
> Reality is a relation
>
> No relation no reality
>
> No words no nonsense
> ...
> SRD
>
> Semiotic Resistance DepartmentSee More
> February 21 at 10:55pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> MARIJA VAUDA
> ...THAT'S CORRECT...MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...
> February 21 at 11:06pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> CURT CLONINGER
> Andreas, I think Bergson would say that matter and memory are both real. 
> Memory may be something like "the virtual," but both the virtual and the 
> actual are real to Bergson. The virtual is simply a kind of contingent real 
> that hasn't been a...ctualized yet historically/materially. Memory modulates 
> matter and vice versa; both within the real.
>
> Latour would argue that the nature/culture divide is a residual cultural 
> construct from Romanticism.
>
> More radically, Deleuze/Guattari would argue that on the big-picture plane of 
> consistency/immanence (what I understand as something like Bergson's "real" 
> or Heidegger's "being-in-the-world"), things modulate thoughts modulate 
> things modulate language modulate geology modulate politics modulate bodies 
> modulate faces modulate biology modulate cooking/eating modulate dwelling, 
> etc. All within the real, just captured into different (albeit intricately 
> interconnected) strata. (Yet they might come close to agreeing that logic is 
> unreal.)See More
> February 21 at 11:16pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> AGAM ANDREAS
> I agree on stating that the culture/nature divide is an artificial byproduct 
> of romanticism went wrong
>
> Regarding reality as a relation - to be actively keep alive, a kind of 
> relational heartbeat - reality is depended both on nature and cult...ure - 
> the dynamical consumption of its conflicting and irrational ways of 
> expressing its very existence is both alienating and connecting
>
> The actual act of thinking itself is insufficient to comprehend its own 
> nature, expressed as it is by its dynamic relation with its cultural 
> dominating ecosystems in which it is forming
>
> Wiener and Maturana/Varela are trying to understand life as a kind of 
> autopoesis on which memory serves an Darwinistic role in using matter to 
> maintain the best possible outcome of its need - will? - to maintain its 
> living condition
>
> Reality is a continuously 'becoming' and never will 'be'
>
> "Real is what was before birth and remains after death, in between is the 
> realm of the unreal called life"
>
> ARD
>
> Autopoetical Resistance Department
> February 21 at 11:50pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> CURT CLONINGER
>> >  "Reality is a continuously 'becoming' and never will 'be'."
>
> I agree here. This is D+G's critique of most philosophy -- If we only ever 
> analyze what "is" or "has been," then how will we ever understand the 
> mechanisms that bring things in...to being?
>
>> >  "Real is what was before birth and remains after death, in between is 
>> >  the realm of the unreal called life."
>
> Here I would disagree, but then I don't think life (or being, or time) ends 
> at death (which puts me a bit at odds with the "existential" Heidegger -- I 
> don't see death as the horizon of being, although it is indubitably the 
> horizon of being-in-the-world).See More
> February 22 at 12:19am · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> MARIJA VAUDA
> ...Maurice Merleau-Ponty have well known phenomenologycal definition of time 
> as something:''Which is not anymore and it's not yet.''...Also need to see 
> phenomenon of *real* or *unreal* could be seen in system of Leibniz monads 
> /http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Leibniz / which is re-actual/sated/ 
> in recent micro physic 
> research/mater-anti-mater/...MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...
> February 22 at 1:00pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> AGAM ANDREAS
> Some reading food, for adventurous minds only!:
>
> http://www.heksis.com/index.html
> February 23 at 2:09pm · LikeUnlike
>
>
>
> AGAM ANDREAS
> special issue about body and art in Polish and English, very interesting 
> periodical, concerned with rather 'difficult' issues.
>
> Well worth reading!
> February 23 at 2:10pm · LikeUnlike
>
> · 1 person
>
>
> Andreas Maria Jacobs
>
> w: http: //www.nictoglobe.com
> w: http: //burgerwaanzin.nl
>